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� Chopper & Custom builders | |  04-08-2009, 11:17 AM | | Club Chopper Member 
| | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 80 | |   Not Ranked Should there be continuity between battery cables?
I'm trying to track down an electrical problem on my bike. when i hook the battery up it wants to arc when i hook the negative up after connecting the positive. i have a continuity tester and hook the clip to the positive cable and touch the other end to the positive cable and it shows theres continuity. should there be? i would think there shouldn't be, that would be the same as taking a wire and touching each post of the battery with it. am i thinking about that the right way? if there shouldn't be continuity between the wires what could cause that? this is a chopper and im using the wiring harness from scooters and i only have a brake light, head light, rear turn signals, horn and a car type ignition switch.  | -
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| 04-08-2009, 11:29 AM |  | CC Member/Contributor
| | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Somewhere Freakin Cold, FU Posts: 3,223 | | | Not Ranked Yes..there should be...It dosent necessarily mean the cable is good enough to start a bike because the the meter only puts in a very small amount of current. | | 04-08-2009, 11:48 AM |  | Douchebaggery
| | | Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Barefoot Country, NJ Bike Year, Make, Engine: 05 Barefoot Choppa Posts: 29,062 | | Not Ranked Quote: continuity: uninterrupted connection, succession, or union b: uninterrupted duration or continuation especially without essential change Think about it this way, it's a uninterupted piece of metal. __________________   ...Handle every stressfull situation like a dog...if you can't eat it or hump it...piss on it and walk away...  "if i got all bent out of shape over folks i don't respect... i might wake up with your life" | | 04-08-2009, 11:49 AM | | Club Chopper Member
| | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 80 | | | Not Ranked ok so there should be continuity between the two wires. im going to throw this out there because im so stumped on this. the wiring was fine last year. over the winter i took the trans. out and and had to take apart some of the wiring. i put it all back just the way it was but now i have this problem of the battery arcing when hooking it up. the only other thing i can think of is i cut the ground cable in half. it was 12" and i only needed it to be 6". i silver solderd the new end on. could using the solder be causing too much resistance in the ground cable? the old ends where crimped on. i know im reaching here but this just doesn't make since to me why im having electrical problems. or could you have too short of a ground cable? | | 04-08-2009, 12:24 PM | | | Douchebaggery
| | | Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Barefoot Country, NJ Bike Year, Make, Engine: 05 Barefoot Choppa Posts: 29,062 | | | Not Ranked Has nothing to do with the length, plain and simple you have a short. Perhaps you hooked up your wires backwards (crossed wires=hot to ground, ground to hot) __________________ ...Handle every stressfull situation like a dog...if you can't eat it or hump it...piss on it and walk away... "if i got all bent out of shape over folks i don't respect... i might wake up with your life" | | 04-08-2009, 12:36 PM |  | Super Moderator
|  | | Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Coventry, RI Bike Year, Make, Engine: 2005 BBC Venom Chopper, S&S 96 Posts: 8,804 | | Not Ranked This is what you said, but I'm not sure it's what you meant: "i have a continuity tester and hook the clip to the positive cable and touch the other end to the positive cable and it shows theres continuity" Your statement tells us you were checking the positive cable for continuity. That one part or section of the cable is connected to the other part and it conducts electricity. The fact that either cable would arc when connecting it to the battery (placing the battery in the electrical circuit) should indicate there is a current draw in the circuit. Given the battery is connected to ground. If you were to connect the positive battery cable to the battery post and your ignition is off (no power is flowing) how could there be an arc? Wouldn't that only happen if something was drawing power from the battery? If you have an alarm wired into the circuit, that is always drawing power whether your ignition is on or off, so that would explain some sparking when the cable is attached to the battery. But if nothing is energized until you turn a key or press a button I'm not sure why you would get any sparking. If that's the case, you could measure ampere draw from the battery--maybe only in milliamperes--with an ammeter to see if current is flowing once that cable is attached. The ammeter would be connected in series with the battery cable and the battery post. If you get a reading, then you need to isolate the circuit or part of the circuit that's drawing power. __________________
Ua mau ke ea o ka `aina i ka pono The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness. *********************************** *****************************
"Gentlemen, we must all hang together or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
| | 04-08-2009, 01:04 PM | | Club Chopper Member
| | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 80 | | | Not Ranked CENJIM your right i didn't say that right. what i wanted to say was i hook the clip to the negative battery cable and touch the other end to the positive cable and there is continuity between both of them. the switch is turned off and i have no alarm. its just a bare bones wiring. i've even tried to just hook the positive cable up and the negative cable with none of the other wiring hooked up to the battery and it still arcs. | | 04-08-2009, 01:52 PM |  | Club Chopper Member
| | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Saint Petersburg, Fl Bike Year, Make, Engine: 99 Mutant Buell Posts: 375 | | | Not Ranked with cables not hooked to battery you should have no continuity..or path for current..if you do ....you have a wire or a device shorted or crossed or reading thru a device that is turned on or active.... | | 04-08-2009, 02:02 PM | | Club Chopper Member
| | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 80 | | | Not Ranked spdy52 thanks. i guess because i wrote it wrong before i had people mixed up. so there should be no continuity between the two battery cables. and yes i had the battery out of the bike. so would disconnecting each thing at a time such as the brake light or the turn signals and checking to see when there is no more continuity between the battery cables the best way to track down the offending wires? not sure the best way to track down a short. | | 04-08-2009, 02:09 PM | | | Douchebaggery
| | | Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Barefoot Country, NJ Bike Year, Make, Engine: 05 Barefoot Choppa Posts: 29,062 | | Not Ranked Quote: Originally Posted by spby52  with cables not hooked to battery you should have no continuity..or path for current..if you do ....you have a wire or a device shorted or crossed or reading thru a device that is turned on or active.... Pretty much it. Assuming your key is off and functioning properly (shouldn't be any continuity through the ignition circuit an light circuit. If you had a faulty starter switch assuming your not running a relay then you could see "high" ohms through the starter to ground, but wouldn't read like a dead short. __________________ ...Handle every stressfull situation like a dog...if you can't eat it or hump it...piss on it and walk away... "if i got all bent out of shape over folks i don't respect... i might wake up with your life" | | 04-08-2009, 03:09 PM | | Club Chopper Member
| | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 80 | | | Not Ranked i've been checking the wiring but so far nothing. could it be possible my starter is messed up and causing it. when i took the bike apart i noticed the battery cable post on the starter was rubbing the bottom of the oil tank and rubbed right through the paint and was touching metal. i have the negative battery cable connected to the bolt that holds the oil tank to the frame. could the contact have damaged the starter and is now causing this problem? i ground down the post on the starer so its not touching the oil tank anymore. i have already replaced the breakers and relay and that didn't fix it. | | 04-08-2009, 08:32 PM | | | Super Moderator
| | | Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Coventry, RI Bike Year, Make, Engine: 2005 BBC Venom Chopper, S&S 96 Posts: 8,804 | | Not Ranked Still trying to find out what you mean and what you've done. We know from what you said that the positive lug on your starter was contacting the metal on the oil tank? If that's true, and if you have the positive cable from the battery attached to that lug, there would be a big short circuit whenever that lug came in contact with the frame or oil bag. If not lots of sparks there, then overheating and possible melting at the battery. So does your heavy 4 gauge positive cable connect to that lug? And your battery ground cable is best attached to one of the starter mounting bolts so that the starter gets the most direct path of current from the battery as possible. That's better than connecting it to where the oil tank is mounted to the frame. So when you try to connect the battery you are getting sparks when and where the cable attaches to the battery posts? Little sparks or big ones?
Little means there's something drawing current.
Big ones mean a short circuit. Since you took the bike apart I'm guessing it no longer runs at all? If everything except the starter is disconnected from the circuit and there is a short, it's either in the starter, at a connection point in the starter circuit, or somewhere along a cable or wire that has had damage to the insulation and allowing the bare metal of a positive wire to touch the frame. __________________
Ua mau ke ea o ka `aina i ka pono The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness. *********************************** *****************************
"Gentlemen, we must all hang together or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
| | 04-09-2009, 11:02 AM | | Club Chopper Member
| | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 80 | | Not Ranked CENJIM first i want to say thanks for all the help and trying to help me work through this. First I'll answer your questions.
Yes my positive battery cable does connect to the lug on the starter that was making contact with the oil bag.
I get big sparks, enough to melt the negative post of the battery.
No the bike doesn't run at this point. It was running fine though when I took it apart.
I have done what you said in your last sentence. I've checked just the positive cable coming from the starter and the negative battery cable, taking all the other wires out of the picture. Thats where I'm getting continuity between the two cables. I'll try and clear things up some. I took the trans. out this winter to replace the leaking seal. That is when I found that the positive cable lug on the starter had rubbed through the paint on my oil bag and was touching the metal. I'm guessing that since the battery post didn't melt off it wasn't a constant contact, maybe more like when I hit bumps it would bump into each other. To add to the confusion the oil bag was also rubbing against the belt drive plate and the plate had done the same thing to the oil bag as far as rubbing through the paint. You could actually see small pits in the oil bag metal and the drive plate metal where they where touching, I'm guessing because of the contact with the starter lug at the same time if you understand what im saying. I think the electricity was shorting out at the contact between the oil bag and the belt drive plate instead of at the battery. Never noticed anything while riding the bike and all seemed ok. Now that I have seen the contact problems I have ground down the lug on the starter so there is no contact and also ground down the drive plate so there is no more contact with the oil bag. All wires are hooked up correctly and I have already replaced the 3 breakers I have and the relay and also the starter switch. I'm to the point now that I think either the starter is messed up from the contact with the oil bag or that I have some wiring, maybe whats run through the frame that I can't see that is melted and making contact with each other. All the wiring that I can see looks good. I'm going to get the starter checked out and see if i can find out anything about it. If its not that I think I'm going to have to start pulling the wires out of my frame. Sorry for the long post just trying to clear things up. Thanks again for the help. Here is a picture of the bike so you know what kind of bike where talking about. 
Last edited by speed3; 04-09-2009 at 11:20 AM.. | | 04-09-2009, 11:54 AM | | | Super Moderator
| | | Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Coventry, RI Bike Year, Make, Engine: 2005 BBC Venom Chopper, S&S 96 Posts: 8,804 | | | Not Ranked If you can just disconnect the wiring that passes through the frame, that would remove the possibility of a short in those wires. Then when you hook up the battery cables, if there are no sparks then you know there's a problem with those wires. Hopefully they are covered along the entire length with heat shrink tubing as an added protection, but they can still overheat and melt the insulation. However, it's more likely there could be a bare spot on them hitting the frame, especially if there's any roughness around the holes in the frame. Also a good idea to place rubber grommets in the holes for added protection.
Your big sparks are a good indicator of a short and not a simple current draw or drain.
If when you remove those through the frame wires from the live circuit you still get sparking, then it would come down to the starter circuit (assuming there's nothing else being fed by a circuit breaker). I say that because if all circuits on the other side of the breakers are disconnected, it leaves the starter circuit. You'd want to check the integrity of the positive battery cable to the starter to be sure there's no break in the insulation, etc.
Next, you could remove the starter from the equation by taking off the positive supply cable. Run a 10 gauge wire to power up your breakers with the other wiring now reconnected. If the starter is disconnected and the other circuits are back on line and there is no sparking when you hook up the battery, then you know the probs in the starter or starter circuit.
Hate to remove a starter til it's proven to be bad by elimination or direct testing. __________________
Ua mau ke ea o ka `aina i ka pono The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness. *********************************** *****************************
"Gentlemen, we must all hang together or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
| | 04-09-2009, 05:22 PM | | Club Chopper Member
| | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 80 | | | Not Ranked Bad starter, or should i say solenoid. had it checked at autozone. now i just need to figure out if i can rebuild it or have it rebuilt. sure would save on money if i can. the starter is only a year old. thanks for all the help with this. i was really dreading the thought of pulling out all the wiring in the bike. | « Previous Thread | Next Thread »  Posting Rules | You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
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Should there be continuity between battery cables? 
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